Back in April, Substack author Elle Griffin — The Novellist — wrote a post about interviewing herself just for fun. In it, she said she would recommend that other writers do something similar. The bottom line is it’s easy to be hard on ourselves.
So I’m taking a break from writing about writing this week. Instead, I’ll be sitting in the journalist’s seat to ask myself some questions (Okay, some are about writing). Enjoy!
What’s your background in writing and editing?
Great question. I started out as a high school English teacher, although I read/wrote a ton in college since I was an English major first. I added on the “education” piece because the professor for whom I worked told me she didn’t want to see me working at Kinko’s for several years after I graduated.
So I taught high school English for a year, and about the time I thought, “I could do this,” it was time to renew contracts for the next fall. I knew that I could teach again, but the real question was, “Do I want to teach again?” And “Is this what I see myself doing for the next 10-20 years?”
My answer: No.
So I left teaching with just two months left of paychecks, determined to make it as a writer. I applied to 30 different publications that summer. A friend had gotten me a very low-paying internship with a magazine based in Atlanta, where I grew up and now lived. I was also nannying part-time to pay the bills. Toward the end of my internship, none of the resumes had surfaced into jobs, and the internship publishing group asked me to interview for one of its open positions at a trade publication. It was the only place I didn’t apply and the only place I wasn’t wild about working.
But the interview went well, I got the job, and the timing was right. (Read: I needed to make rent that month.)
So I accepted it and began a 10-month stint as a fact-checker, errand-runner, photo-scanner, and occasional product reviewer. It wasn’t my favorite job — read: I cried many nights and canceled many a weekend plan with friends — but I learned so much. I had ample opportunity to edit articles, contribute to magazine layouts, get the lay of the land when it came to a publishing calendar and printers.
It helped pave the way for the rest of my career. I worked for several international nonprofits and got to travel the world interviewing major ministry leaders and recording artists, ghost writing for them, and occasionally, getting my own byline or two. I also became an editor for one of the ministry’s major online initiatives. By the time I started my freelance business as a copy editor, I had worked steadily as a writer and editor almost 10 years.
Why did you go freelance?
I never intended to do 100% freelance, well, not at first. But I realized that my journey as an editor and journalist wasn’t the most conducive to having a family. So I started editing books of some of my author friends. Another friend had started a publishing company, so some of those books were among my first novels to edit.
Then, a friend of a friend asked me to take a look at a book for his boss, and after that happened a few more times, I considered myself a real freelancer. I was accepting editing and ghost writing jobs regularly while also working as a full-time production coordinator for an international nonprofit newspaper.
What led you to 100% freelancing?
My kids. I tried to do the whole I-can-do-it-all thing, and I realized that was a myth. I always tell working moms that you really can have it all; you just can’t have it all at the same time. I am a strong advocate of women in the workplace and of women working in the home. I do think there are seasons when our workplace work takes a backseat to our at-home kid life — either that, or we’re killing it at work, hiring nannies, and 100% okay with the nanny taking over much of that kid-life minutia. (The volunteering at preschool, the baking of cookies, the scheduling of summer camps, etc.)
I did this for a while, and one day, I realized that as much as I loved our nanny, I wanted to do some of the fun things she was doing with my kids. But I never had time. I was either at my full-time job or freelancing and doing laundry well after midnight. Weekends were for grocery shopping, catching up on bill payments, and all the boring stuff.
So my husband and I spent many years praying for the means to quit, and I quit long before we actually had the means. :-) It was kind of one of those “how much is enough before we have kids?” questions. You never really have enough. You just jump in.
And that’s what I did. I jumped in to full-time freelancing, and while it’s always been a part-time gig for me, I’ve been surprised at the opportunities that have come my way: working as a script writer, editing educational websites and helping schools with marketing, copy editing for several novelists and memoirists, and ghost writing for leaders in the nonprofit and educational industries.
Why did you start a Substack newsletter?
I started this newsletter as a “fun” diversion from my editing work, something where I could write about the things I didn’t see other editors or ghost writers writing about. In addition to providing helpful tips about writing, editing, and proofreading, I wanted to offer the kind of “best practices” advice that you can’t get from a tip sheet: interviewing other authors and asking them about their journeys, sharing my own author journey into novel-writing, being real about the downsides to being a working author, and sharing a behind-the-scenes look at what a real-life editor is learning from her clients. (So many editors share FOR their would-be clients. This makes sense; we are building businesses. But I also like to share what I am learning FROM my clients. I think that’s a valuable takeway for my readers too.)
What are you working on right now?
Currently, I am working on quotes. I’ll be honest — it’s my least favorite thing to do. I used to despise expense reports when I worked full time. But they were a necessary evil for someone who traveled and expensed as much as I did. While my expense reports are now just turned into my husband (a.k.a., my accountant), they’re no longer the most despised element of what I do.
I actually don’t love putting quotes together for potential clients. I know this is not an evil — and I know that it is necessary. How can I give my best to a client who doesn’t know how much I charge?
But because every project is different, and every client has different skill sets and needs, I don’t like to publish one-off rates on my website. It doesn’t take into account their specific project, if they are a one-man show or a team of people hiring me, or if they have two months’ lead time versus two years’ lead time. I like to price according to all of these factors together, which makes each quote a little more time-consuming than it would be if I just charged a flat rate.
However, the opportunity I have to make a new friend, interview a potential client via Zoom at no charge, and then put together a quote for him/her is part of the process I love. It honestly reminds me of my journalist days because it’s a mixture of nerves, navigating new environments, and using my listening skills to ascertain what a client truly needs — not just what he/she starts out thinking that he/she needs.
What’s the trickiest thing about being a ghost writer AND an editor?
Hmm… well, I’d say that the trickiest things for me involve scope. Generally, when editing a book, I define the scope and it pretty much stays that way through the editing process. An author or a publisher hires me to do a line edit, or they know from the beginning they’ll need a more extensive developmental edit. That’s straightforward, even though they both take different amounts of time.
But ghost writing scope can change with the evolution of a project. So in some cases, this means re-working a contract, changing course, and going in a new direction. It’s definitely worth it, but it’s just tricky making sure that the client gets what he or she really needs — not just what he or she came for. (This often changes when he/she gets into the process and realizes that what he/she originally asked for isn’t what he/she actually wants.)
What personal projects are you working on now?
I am working on moving my novel down the line a little more this summer. Mondays are my chosen writing days — with the hope that as I get “into it,” the thrill of the character’s psyche or the latest turn of events will motivate me through other days of the week too.
It’s a middle grade fantasy but has elements of magical realism and historical fiction too. I love a mish-mash.
What’s been most challenging as you’ve balanced that personal writing with your professional writing and editing?
One of my biggest challenges with any project is that I get 100% stuck in. I think the term “stuck in” may be a carryover from when I lived in the UK, but it basically means getting really involved in a project. I’m one of those people that thinks in my characters’ voices even when I’m running around doing errands. Or if I am working on a new marketing campaign for my school client, I will often come up with ideas for that project while I’m trying to work on a freelance quote.
My biggest challenge, then, is me. Well, my brain — to be more specific. I’ve always envied people who can set out to think about just one thing, accomplish that set of thoughts or skills related to it, and then move on. My husband calls these “boxes” of focus. He has a box for work, a box for making dinner, a box for social engagements, etc. My boxes are more like “to do’s” and “cool ideas” — so they’re categorized by pragmatism and creativity, which is just how I am wired. I could have to-do items such as “take my daughter to the dentist” and “research LinkedIn for a client.” Items under the “cool ideas” box might be “Write a picture book about this” and “Add this element to XYZ character so that he has more depth to him.”
You see that my brain is more like spaghetti, a mashup of ingredients that — when assembled — form a wonderful dish. But my husband’s brain is more meat-and-potatoes — separate entities that are clearly identifiable.
What’s your ultimate goal in publishing to Substack?
My ultimate goal is to help authors “see” themselves in what I write about. If they can’t relate, then I’m doing it wrong. (And I very often might be doing it wrong. But I keep trying.)
Why not go paid — why not charge authors for what you offer in Substack?
Well, I’ve considered that. I learned a long time ago that the more I can diversify my income, the better off I’ll be as a freelancer. So I may eventually move to a paid model. But right now, I am still working through the elements of what my readers want to see, how they can “see” themselves in what I offer, and making sure the content I provide is top-notch. After all, I started this as more of a fun diversion, so it’s taking me a while to get a clear view of what my readers want. (I was shocked the first time someone other than my mom and sister wanted to read this. As, I think, most authors are when a non-family member or friend wants to read their stuff.)
How do you find your editing and ghost writing clients?
This is the question, isn’t it? I often tell friends who ask me this that my clients find me. Yes, I’ve joined professional groups and social media forums. I’m on twitter, instagram, Facebook, and Alignable.
But if I told you how I got my last 10 clients, you’d be alarmed at how unprofessional it was.
Okay, well, two of them were through some of those more “professional” outlets. But several were either referrals from previous clients, and still more were what I like to call run-ins with people who don’t know they need an editor or ghost writer.
These are people I meet in my everyday, non-professional life. They can begin at my kids’ school, at church, or in online forums that have nothing to do with writing or editing. I even “found” one client by volunteering, and as the volunteer coordinator interviewed me to come and help them out, she realized I’d be a great fit for a project that her nonprofit was looking to hire out.
Do you have any doubts as a writer or an editor?
This is hilarious to me. I doubt myself all the time. While I am very confident that I’ll work my a$$ tail typing fingers off for every single client — and get each client the finished product he/she desires, even better than he/she desires — it takes a little bit of jumping over the proverbial “my dead body” doubts inside my own head. There are days I wake up wondering why anyone would want to hire me, where I got the idea I could write a novel, and maybe I should just hang it up and go work at a clothing boutique?
How do you overcome on those doubting days?
Honestly, I just start with “the next thing.” I’m a big fan of Emily P. Freeman’s podcast, The Next Right Thing, even though her eyes are a little bit creepy in the current image. In it, she spends anywhere from 4 to 24 minutes talking to guests or just reading something she’s written that reiterates the main point: We don’t have to get it right, to know the whole journey upfront, or to write something in stone. We get to try as we go along, and then we get to change our minds or start over as needed.
So I just try to keep this attitude in all my projects. If I don’t win a bid because my quote was higher than someone else’s, that’s okay. I trust the process. If my article isn’t published on the first try, don’t just give up. Research, reframe, rewrite, and try again.
This whole career is about starting, stopping, and my least favorite word, pivoting. (I am a big fan of the definition of pivoting, but I honestly, just got soooooo ooooo tired of hearing that word during the pandemic that it’s one of my least favorite words now.)
Speaking of “least favorite” words, what is one of your favorite words?
Even as a child, I loved the word “cornmeal.” It is the most unnecessary word in our current culture, but I just love the sound of it. I think weird wordsmiths have an arsenal of words they love for different reasons — some words they love the definitions of, some words they love the sound of, and some words they love because others don’t know what they mean. So many words. And lots to love about them.
What’s your “next right thing” right now?
Lunch. I’m going to leave my office and make a sandwich.